Open Aviation Debate


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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
    You have raised some valid points no doubt.

    But our gripe is the management of UL.

    When the boss Nishantha is living a life of extravagant luxury eating the airline’s profits, it’s a problem.

    - nishantha always has had money and so does his family.theres a lot of family money there in any case. If you are dwelling on his watch scandal....they can definitely afford it...corruption or not

    When the president wants to take some jaunt somewhere he steals a plane.

    - that I pointed out before and I find wrong

    When Government honcho’s want to fly, not only do they steal planes, they do not even pay.

    - again prove it....if your going by my source said this and my uncle said that like the media in Sri Lanka...then that doesn't really say anything.

    ULs Management’s and Government’s “favourites” (i.e. best sycophants and relations) get promoted over those who have brains and skill and actually care for the airline. These clowns then make idiot decisions purely designed for their own enjoyment.

    - again that's a common gripe in UL. Its more an excuse....I'm sure there are some appointments influenced by management like any other airline...everyone's favorite airline never allows anyone but an emirati to run the top positions....in EMIRATES. It doesnt matter if you've worked for so many years....you'll always have an Emirati to answer too regardless of his qualifications.....I dont condone it but it happens....even Singapore airlines controlling body is directly related to government....some government just do it that way...

    Inflight service by the Cabin crew is atrocious. I hate most the “white first” mentality, its disgusting how the cabin crew do not give a damn for us, but will wade hand and foot for a “white god” on board.

    - typical Sri Lankan mentality crushed by white imperialists...blah blah....I've seen it...I know people on it.l.l.crew is nice if your nice...you should here some of the awesome passenger stories....maybe we should start a blog for that....it could be improved though although everyone's expectations are different....I guess I'm just used to flying on carriers like BA, KLM and some of the US airlines.....the food is disgusting....there is hardly a cabin crew worthy of a national airine.....and I could go on and on.....I don't fly business unfortunately.....so I see everything

    I flew in the 90s with Air Lanka –there was no personal inflight entertainment, but the crew were amazing and the food the best in the world. Not the case anymore. The Cabin crew seem always lost and not that bothered, unless you’re white of course.

    - I repeat....the above....I have plenty of friends in Cabin Crew.....it's how they are perceived....if your nice to them....they are so nice to you...regardless of whether you know them or not,...

    Can you also explain to me what business sense there is in the State running TWO airlines? Why is Mihin being kept afloat? Does it make sense for passengers who pay for the cheaper Mihin tickets to be “upgraded” to the more expensive UL. Does it make sense that the boss and CEO of Mihin and UL are the same? What is going on with regards to Mihin Lanka? It SERVES NO PURPOSE other than being a burden. There is no commercial sense or business model behind it. It is just there because the Preso’s name is on it.

    Mihin Lanka....was a burden....but now it's gearing up to an area that it is starting to make profits.,,it's more of a low cost premium carrier.....if Mihin pays back everything it's borrowed....then write-it-offf.....Id rather get back the money back....and not just dismiss it especially when money is starting to being made.....it allows Sri Lankan to offload routes where it's not competitive in and put an airlines with a smaller cost base....case in point Bahrain

    This protection racket to “preserve the national carrier” would be “ok” if UL was THE BEST and the service was perfect that people will be trampling over others to get on board. In fact if that was the case, UL would not need an idiot monopoly to be “protected”.

    Yah but honestly.....I still see all these airlines that are queuing up to be the next Unofficial Sri Lankan carrier...lot of rhetoric....but no substance.....let an airline go on an all out onslaught....most of the powerful ones can pressure through the international media.. ... And again if it's a case in point where my uncle said this and that....well good luck with that....

    So long as this idiot short sighted “trick” is done to “preserve the national carrier” Colombo will never grow and become a hub. You talk about thinking long term, but every decision made by UL and SL governments past and present is SHORT TERM and stupid. You want Colombo as a hub but also want to “preserve the national carrier”. The latter prevents the former.

    You'd think so right..l.but as I said before none of this huge legacy carriers would make the trip from Europe...when BKK, KL and SIN are a couple of hours away.....we don't meet their price market.....the tourists won't pay it....neither will he average Sri Lankan,,,,

    Those of us "on the attack", are not doing this because we enjoy it or becaise we want UL to fail. We want UL to BE THE BEST. When we see the ugly, stupid decisions made by the management and Government interference we will say something. The service is BAD when compared to other airlines in the same class as UL and so many people are avoiding UL because of this.
    That is again perception....Alot more has been done to the service aspect in the last 2 years than since 1999....we improved....went into a stalemate.....went backwards....and now we are coming back.....not there yet...but with the new planes and IfE things will turnaround...

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by slaviator View Post
    everyone's favorite airline never allows anyone but an emirati to run the top positions....in EMIRATES. It doesnt matter if you've worked for so many years....you'll always have an Emirati to answer too regardless of his qualifications.....
    Well obviously, it’s not the ethnicity of the person holding such senior positions/positions of importance that i am complaining about at UL, it is THEIR COMPETANCE and KNOWLEDGE. Have they really earned that place, are they good at it? In SL that’s not the case now then is it?

    Usually some relative or buddy of the Government honcho’s are appointed to such imported positions, where usually they make a mess of things out of their cheer inability.

    You only need to compare the success (and customer satisfaction) of Emirates against UL to see who is doing a better job when appointing people to positions of importance.

    - typical Sri Lankan mentality crushed by white imperialists...blah blah....I've seen it...I know people on it.l.l.crew is nice if your nice...you should here some of the awesome passenger stories....maybe we should start a blog for that....it could be improved though although everyone's expectations are different....I guess I'm just used to flying on carriers like BA, KLM and some of the US airlines.....the food is disgusting....there is hardly a cabin crew worthy of a national airine.....and I could go on and on.....I don't fly business unfortunately.....so I see everything

    Can you read properly?

    It’s sad that in SL there is still a white worshipping mentality.

    I have seen it perfectly in UL where if you’re white the cabin crew goes all out for you, they (like a lot of people in SL) are in awe of the sight of their gods and love to worship. If you happen to be non-white, well wait your turn because it’s suddha first. I’ve witnessed this myself, and it’s insult for those of us who fly UL out a sense of pride/duty to SL to be made to feel second class. (FYI: This does not happen on "everyone's favourite airline" or Qatar or Oman)

    This is not entirely ULs fault though, it’s the mentality present in Sri Lanka that no one seems interested in breaking and is sadly enforced by the education system.

    So yeah, Sri Lanka is a country still crushed by a slave mentality.

    I repeat....the above....I have plenty of friends in Cabin Crew.....it's how they are perceived....if your nice to them....they are so nice to you...regardless of whether you know them or not,...
    Well duh.
    Seriously what are you on about here?

    Where did I say anything about hurling abuse and expecting the crew to take it? My gripe is when the crew goes gagga seeing some white skinned person and pays more attention and care for them while not being that bothered about others, who are just as polite and friendly –if not more so/ There was an old Lankan gentleman who was not given water (when he politely requested such from a crew member as he needed to take some medication) for an hour because the crew were more interested in pummelling booze for some suddhas.

    This is why I compared it to Air Lanka in the 90s, when the cabin crew were amazing. These days they tend to be lost and unprofessional at times. While the way cabin crew service can be hit or miss when compared to SLs competitors ULs is at the bottom. Standards have dropped, guess training is not as good as it used to be.


    That is again perception....Alot more has been done to the service aspect in the last 2 years than since 1999....we improved....went into a stalemate.....went backwards....and now we are coming back.....not there yet...but with the new planes and IfE things will turnaround...
    Well i hope so to.
    Last edited by Praetorian; 07-08-2012 at 01:33 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
    Well obviously, it’s not the ethnicity of the person holding such senior positions/positions of importance that i am complaining about at UL, it is THEIR COMPETANCE and KNOWLEDGE. Have they really earned that place, are they good at it? In SL that’s not the case now then is it?

    Usually some relative or buddy of the Government honcho’s are appointed to such imported positions, where usually they make a mess of things out of their cheer inability.

    You only need to compare the success (and customer satisfaction) of Emirates against UL to see who is doing a better job when appointing people to positions of importance.

    - well with regard to that all I'm saying is people of influence always run a lot of national airlines....Emirates I picked because it's a prime example...it's not about ethnicity...it's about picking people just for the sake of picking people....emirates is successful because their CEO is dynamic and they have alot of financial leverage (as mentioned earlier) and has a sound management teAm...I can't argue with that but even the CEO didnt have any aviation experience..he's a member of the royal family....he is smart though and that's useful....The best managers don't have to go to BUSINESS SCHOOl....they have to have a Vision....and like it or not the current team seem to have a lot going for them.....My opinion though....I'm just looking at things analytically....


    Can you read properly?

    -
    Praetorian Ill just reply to this by saying I can, read, analyze and comprehend very well....I work in the very industry that we are talking about and I have no political affiliations or whims and fancies....I go by whAt I see and analyze....You may judge me to be wrong but that's your opinion...if you can give an opinion learn to understand an opinion and then question

    It’s sad that in SL there is still a white worshipping mentality.

    I have seen it perfectly in UL where if you’re white the cabin crew goes all out for you, they (like a lot of people in SL) are in awe of the sight of their gods and love to worship. If you happen to be non-white, well wait your turn because it’s suddha first. I’ve witnessed this myself, and it’s insult for those of us who fly UL out a sense of pride/duty to SL to be made to feel second class. (FYI: This does not happen on "everyone's favourite airline" or Qatar or Oman)

    This is not entirely ULs fault though, it’s the mentality present in Sri Lanka that no one seems interested in breaking and is sadly enforced by the education system.

    So yeah, Sri Lanka is a country still crushed by a slave mentality.



    Well duh.
    Seriously what are you on about here?

    Where did I say anything about hurling abuse and expecting the crew to take it? My gripe is when the crew goes gagga seeing some white skinned person and pays more attention and care for them while not being that bothered about others, who are just as polite and friendly –if not more so/ There was an old Lankan gentleman who was not given water (when he politely requested such from a crew member as he needed to take some medication) for an hour because the crew were more interested in pummelling booze for some suddhas.



    This is why I compared it to Air Lanka in the 90s, when the cabin crew were amazing. These days they tend to be lost and unprofessional at times. While the way cabin crew service can be hit or miss when compared to SLs competitors ULs is at the bottom. Standards have dropped, guess training is not as good as it used to be.

    Look that may have been the case in your instance but that's changing as far as I know.....there's a long way to go so that has to come from Cabin Crew....the ones I spoke to have been talking about change in service standards but that might still not be enough...I can't agree or disagree completely on this ...I know alots been said on Skytrax but then again it's a personal opinion.....I've seen glowing tributes for some US airlines but again it's a bit skewed....some people don't know any better.....My analysis is on the whole product and the cabin crews take is that....some of up our worthy citizens are very rude....touch Inappropriately....Etc etc.....it's unfortunate about the gentleman agreed


    Well i hope so to.
    This will go on an endless cycle....I value your opinions....but sometimes it pays to listen and do your research....not just catch onto what everything that tom, dick and Harry says and just harp on an area continuously....there is never any progress that way...it's always a case of oh back then...at least you seem to comprehend reason so that's probably why I even bother replying to a few people and not every Tom, dick and Harry who has something to say...so I'll leave this discussion here....what you take from it is solely upto you...

    you seem to at least want to see Sri Lankan succeed....so read into it...piece together what's happening much more comprehensively....nothing changes overnght....and there's a lot of change that has to happen... literally changing an airline with limited finances which was stuck in the early 2000 is not an easy feet....war, bombings....as I said its a blessing it's still ferrying someone up there....

  4. #44
    @slaviator,

    Since you appear to spread misinformation with authority, I am compelled to make this post. I am surprised that you do not know the following given your involvement in the industry!

    1. Sheikh Ahmed (who is the uncle of Dubai's ruler) does not run EK's daily operations. He has very many other political and economical responsibilities (such as being the Chairman of Emirates NBD banking group ) as well as being a member of the Dubai Executive Council.
    2. EK's hands on manager is Tim Clark who is an airline veteran with Gulf Air since mid seventies.
    3. The other figure responsible for EK's success is Maurice Flanagan who has been in aviation since 1950s.

    As you may know, running an airline is very different to running any other type of business, hence industry experience is a must. EK works because the shared experience amongst the three key figures above exceed 100 years.

    If you are telling me that experience or professional / academic training is not required to run an airline effectively, I have a serious difficulty believing it.

  5. #45
    @cayman

    Cayman first of all what you interpret as misinformation is visibly available.....what you want to believe and don't is upto you..that is a personal choice but you don't have a right to accuse me of spreading misinformation.....

    I did mention in the post that they had a sound management team and thats with regard to Tim Clarke and Maurice.......but sheikh Ahmed was the brother of the emir who turned Dubai around...and he is now the uncle of the ruler by virtue of his death....he literally started his career as the president of the Dept of Civil Aviation, which he still is performing....if that connection doesn't provide an advantage to an airline then there are very few things really will....but he is a good businessman and he has created a Goliath...which I wholeheartedly commend....but if you tell me that there isn't any support from the Dubai government which literally owns the majority of the airline...then you are seriously naive....

    Some of the best managers in the world don't start with all the relevant experience or professional qualificiations.....but if you have a will.....intellect....bit of clout...applicable finance and a vision....good things happen...case in point...Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg.....maybe they aren't really aviation professionals....but they made a difference, everyone was different but they made old decisions at he right time...remember they are all dropouts but very successful.....and they literally started with nothing....no experience but a vision....

    In the case of emirates....regardless of what tim Clarke thought up....if not for Sheikh Ahmed's power, close ties and the sovereign guarantee from his family which rules Dubai....emirates would have never happened....they do it well and I agree with that....but there is always support from the government in a myriad of ways.....it's not simply cut and dry as everyone wants to believe

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Cayman View Post
    @slaviator,

    Since you appear to spread misinformation with authority, I am compelled to make this post. I am surprised that you do not know the following given your involvement in the industry!

    1. Sheikh Ahmed (who is the uncle of Dubai's ruler) does not run EK's daily operations. He has very many other political and economical responsibilities (such as being the Chairman of Emirates NBD banking group ) as well as being a member of the Dubai Executive Council.
    2. EK's hands on manager is Tim Clark who is an airline veteran with Gulf Air since mid seventies.
    3. The other figure responsible for EK's success is Maurice Flanagan who has been in aviation since 1950s.

    As you may know, running an airline is very different to running any other type of business, hence industry experience is a must. EK works because the shared experience amongst the three key figures above exceed 100 years.

    If you are telling me that experience or professional / academic training is not required to run an airline effectively, I have a serious difficulty believing it.
    I'd be interested to hear how you view Tony Fernandes (or any of the AirAsia mgt for that matter - 90% of whom have never worked for an airline before) ...
    The opinions above are solely my own and do not reflect those of my employer or clients

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kflyer View Post
    I'd be interested to hear how you view Tony Fernandes (or any of the AirAsia mgt for that matter - 90% of whom have never worked for an airline before) ...
    Congratulations! Just like the previous poster who managed to identify three odd balls in the IT industry as opposed to millions who succeeded with proper training (which is the norm), you managed to single out the one odd ball in the aviation industry as opposed to hundreds of thousands trained professionals. Is Tony having the same success with his Formula team as he does with Air Asia? If everything that he touches turn to gold, how would you explain their miserable performance in F1?

    These days if you spend enough time on Google, you could find the odd reference to justify any theory / argument.

    People become successful in what they do, when they know what they do, and when they are properly trained to do what they do. This has been (and will be) the norm in the history of mankind and I can find a million examples to back this up.

    I will give you just one:

    Find me a single untrained / inexperienced member who got there by fluke in the NASA /JPL team that successfully landed the Mars rover yesterday after navigating it for 352 MILLION MILES! Now, that is an amazing achievement, accomplished by people who knew what they were doing.

    Anybody can make a quick buck if you happened to be in the right place at the right time (Suckerberg?) but this is the exception to the rule; not the rule itself.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by slaviator View Post
    @cayman


    Some of the best managers in the world don't start with all the relevant experience or professional qualificiations.....but if you have a will.....intellect....bit of clout...applicable finance and a vision....good things happen...case in point...Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg.....maybe they aren't really aviation professionals....but they made a difference, everyone was different but they made old decisions at he right time...remember they are all dropouts but very successful.....and they literally started with nothing....no experience but a vision....

    ***

    In the case of emirates....regardless of what tim Clarke thought up....if not for Sheikh Ahmed's power, close ties and the sovereign guarantee from his family which rules Dubai....emirates would have never happened....they do it well and I agree with that....but there is always support from the government in a myriad of ways.....it's not simply cut and dry as everyone wants to believe
    Steve Jobs - drop out of Reed college
    Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg - dropped out Harvard University
    For once I agree...Yes they all dropped of elite US universities; well at least they got admission. To get admission (minimum is above average GPAs) to them(universities) itself is a prestige.

    But they all had one thing in common. i.e. it is their own companies if they did not succeed; it is their money (in case of Mark Zuckerberg some one else money) and the company at stake. Where as UL ex or current CEO's they did not build this company or their money at stake...it is the Sri lankan tax payers money at stake.

    On EK...I read an article in Flight International way back in early 90's just after gulf war...Reporter asked the question about the owners...this is what Tim Clark said. Myself, Maurice and the management team run the show; they do not interfere. Yes they weathered gulf war very well without complaining. At that time UL was carrying passengers from DXB to Berlin/LHR/Munich and many other points in Europe...rest is history

    By the way you do spread misinformation and spin the truth.
    Last edited by Speedbird; 08-08-2012 at 12:55 AM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kflyer View Post
    I'd be interested to hear how you view Tony Fernandes (or any of the AirAsia mgt for that matter - 90% of whom have never worked for an airline before) ...
    Tony Fernandes - Graduate of London School of Economics; Former auditor of Virgin Atlantic and Financial Controller of Virgin Records. A Professional Charted Accountant

    ...at least he knows about Credit and Debit

    and you are the one who mentioned that "knowing too little can sometimes be a dangerous thing"
    Last edited by Speedbird; 07-08-2012 at 11:55 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kflyer View Post
    Of course, I am in no position to answer that last question as that is not a decision you or I can make. But if possible, I would like you to analyze the most recent financial reports of both airlines. You may then realise that on an operational level MJ is now making a better return than UL. If used in the right way, MJ's business model is the perfect one that fits SL as the majority in SL cannot afford a full service air ticket. And the advantage of having a common management is that you can then use MJ as a tool for UL to fight the LCCs expanding rapidly into CMB. Again this all depends on the execution, but it is a sound model in theory.
    I totally agree with Kflyer and Slaviator. There is a bigger aim behind of this coporatoion with UL and MJ. If you look at there are lot of full service carriers are suffering and thus they use this technique of having a subsidery LCC. Lot of examples to get off EK started flydubai and feeding in and out, SQ started Scoot and feeding in and out, QF started Jetstar and feeding in and out, Qatar is planing their own LCC.... these big players are making these move to catch up some part of their low end budget passenger business. So it is same that UL doing with Mihin. If you look at financials of MJ and UL you will realize. Please note flydubai to make its first profit it took nearly 5 yrs. So its not a miracle soon you restructure your business you will get the benefits right away. You will see this benefits with MJ in another couple of years.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by indika7777 View Post
    ... If you look at financials of MJ and UL you will realize. Please note flydubai to make its first profit it took nearly 5 yrs. So its not a miracle soon you restructure your business you will get the benefits right away. You will see this benefits with MJ in another couple of years.
    Yes I had a look at the financial of MJ and UL...but they were all in RED...So "soon you restructure your business you will get the benefits right away. You will see this benefits with MJ in another couple of years"; which one is it?

    So if your theory is correct I should be able to book EK code share flights in flydubai web site and SQ code share flights scoot web site correct?

    I wonder what was EK, SQ and QF plans for competing against Air Arabia, Air Asia X and Virgin Australia.
    Last edited by Speedbird; 24-11-2012 at 02:49 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by indika7777 View Post
    I totally agree with Kflyer and Slaviator. There is a bigger aim behind of this coporatoion with UL and MJ. If you look at there are lot of full service carriers are suffering and thus they use this technique of having a subsidery LCC. Lot of examples to get off EK started flydubai and feeding in and out, SQ started Scoot and feeding in and out, QF started Jetstar and feeding in and out, Qatar is planing their own LCC.... these big players are making these move to catch up some part of their low end budget passenger business. So it is same that UL doing with Mihin. If you look at financials of MJ and UL you will realize. Please note flydubai to make its first profit it took nearly 5 yrs. So its not a miracle soon you restructure your business you will get the benefits right away. You will see this benefits with MJ in another couple of years.
    These other airlines may have LCCs but their LCCs have critical mass. Whereas Mihin only operates 3 aircraft to a very limited number of destinations. So there isnt much of a feeder network for UL. And with the exception of QF/JQ none of the other companies codeshare with their LCC subsidiaries. In fact EK and FlyDubai are totally separate companies.

  13. #53
    Qantas-Emirates deal gets final backing from Australia

    Qantas Airways has won a final approval form Australia's competition watchdog for its partnership with Emirates.

    Meanwhile, the alliance with Emirates will also see Qantas shift its hub for European flights to Dubai from Singapore.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21949473

  14. #54
    Did airline have right to ‘bounce’ passenger with valid visa off a flight?
    May 31, 2014, 12:00 pm


    by Maheen Senanayake


    SriLankan Airlines has concluded an inquiry into a complaint that a Paris-bound passenger with valid Schengen and British visas stamped on her passport had been denied boarding as she was not carrying a sponsor’s letter supporting her visa application.


    The incident had occurred at the departure lounge of the BIA in the early hours of May 16 while the passenger was awaiting boarding after completing check-in, immigration and customs formalities.


    An airline official had wanted to see her sponsor letter which she was not carrying. Her protests that the relevant documents had been presented to the visa issuing authorities had been of no avail.


    SriLankan’s Manager, Media Relations and PR, Deepal Perera, said yesterday that the investigation has been completed but he could make no comment yet as he had not read the report.


    SriLankan earlier had earlier taken up the position


    ``we would like to take this opportunity to highlight the fact that , international airlines have the right to examine the travel documents of any of their passengers at the last point of departure to ensure the passenger holds all required documentation to be permitted entry into the destination.


    ``It should be noted that he/she could be denied entry by the authorities at the country of arrival if they are not satisfied that the passenger fulfils all the requirements for entry , even in the instances where the passenger concerned is in possession of a valid visa. In such an instance, the Airline that carried the passenger to the country is liable to bring back the passenger and may be penalized with payment of a fine.


    ``In order to avoid hindrances of such a nature, all the international carriers, conduct thorough checking of documents to ensure that the passenger is in possession of the required documents inter alia a valid reason for the visit to satisfy the arrival immigration authorities."

    http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_...e_title=104314

  15. #55
    Hey folks what are the benefits and cons of today's government and past government in terms of aviation and tourism?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by suganya07 View Post
    Hey folks what are the benefits and cons of today's government and past government in terms of aviation and tourism?
    in a nutshell Past Government of MR is a bunch of thieves and todays government of RW is bunch of idiots.

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