Open Aviation Debate


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  1. #1

    Arrow Open Aviation Debate

    Let me ask this. If Srilankan Airlines is struggling financially does that mean Colombo(it's hub) is not having potential or not attracting enough passengers.Do you say this? Don't say because of politics UL didn't prosper, If that is the case same logic applicable to IXM too. We have not been allowed to prosper in international sectors because of same politics only. When ever airlines showed interest to operate international fights out of Madurai it was dealt with in the very earlier stage itself to make sure it will not progress further and at the same time somebody is enojoying IXM benefits.

    Madurai airport catchment area includes 9 southern districts and IXM is the hub of southern tamilnadu. Now someone is enjoying our benefits and claiming superiority. We should give equal playing fields for both the parties to come to conclusion.

    Hope this is clear.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by SSCMadurai View Post
    Let me ask this. If Srilankan Airlines is struggling financially does that mean Colombo(it's hub) is not having potential or not attracting enough passengers.
    The problem is like this:

    The Government does not allow other airlines to operate fully in SL.

    This is to "preserve the national carrier", routes done by UL are not allowed by other airlines e.g. Colombo-London direct route is only allowed to be operated by UL.

    This way there is a guaranteed passenger intake/flights for UL.

    It's utterly stupid. Because of this useless decision to "preserve the national carrier", so few airlines fly to SL, they are actively discouraged to use it as a hub/transit centre. As a result less planes, less passengers, less revenue, less potential tourists, and thus less growth overall for the airport and the country.

    It also means UL can "play hell" because they run a monopoloy.

    It also means that when UL is poorly managed, money is wasted due to corruption (courtesy of the Government interference) and UL loses whatever profits it has, the Government honcho's know they can still rake in some money because they have a "cool" monopoly on the routes. There are always people who want to do the e.g. Colombo-London direct and only UL is allowed it, so some how some cash flows in from passengers.

    Its short sighted, its foul and its disgusting.

    Other airlines who have tried to set up shop in Colombo are left with bad tastes in their mouths because Government worthies want bribes or as described above want to keep this monopoly and tell them to buggar off.

    Back in the early 90s then again in the early 2000s Richard Branson wanted to set Colombo up as a hub for Virgin in the region to connect with India, ME and the Far East. But true to form “protecting the national carrier” was more important.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
    The problem is like this:

    The Government does not allow other airlines to operate fully in SL.

    This is to "preserve the national carrier", routes done by UL are not allowed by other airlines e.g. Colombo-London direct route is only allowed to be operated by UL.

    This way there is a guaranteed passenger intake/flights for UL.

    It's utterly stupid. Because of this useless decision to "preserve the national carrier", so few airlines fly to SL, they are actively discouraged to use it as a hub/transit centre. As a result less planes, less passengers, less revenue, less potential tourists, and thus less growth overall for the airport and the country.

    It also means UL can "play hell" because they run a monopoloy.

    It also means that when UL is poorly managed, money is wasted due to corruption (courtesy of the Government interference) and UL loses whatever profits it has, the Government honcho's know they can still rake in some money because they have a "cool" monopoly on the routes. There are always people who want to do the e.g. Colombo-London direct and only UL is allowed it, so some how some cash flows in from passengers.

    Its short sighted, its foul and its disgusting.

    Other airlines who have tried to set up shop in Colombo are left with bad tastes in their mouths because Government worthies want bribes or as described above want to keep this monopoly and tell them to buggar off.

    Back in the early 90s then again in the early 2000s Richard Branson wanted to set Colombo up as a hub for Virgin in the region to connect with India, ME and the Far East. But true to form “protecting the national carrier” was more important.
    My friend I am afraid your argument is entirely false. Cannot recall a single foreign airline that has been denied recently. In fact it is quitr the opposite to what you said - the competition from other airlines have driven down the prices to unsustainable levels in most markets that no airline is making money.
    The opinions above are solely my own and do not reflect those of my employer or clients

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kflyer View Post
    My friend I am afraid your argument is entirely false. Cannot recall a single foreign airline that has been denied recently. In fact it is quitr the opposite to what you said - the competition from other airlines have driven down the prices to unsustainable levels in most markets that no airline is making money.
    Ahem; How easy was Oman Air to resume CMB service and Qatar Airways request for 3rd frequency...Why some airlines who has requested additional frequency to CMB are forced/coerced to HTT.

    What happened to Qatar's request to operate to Australia via CMB

    If UL cannot make money they should get out of airline business. There is a saying in North America "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

    There are airline which makes profits...wake up and smell the coffee...by the way if price comes down it is good for customers.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbird View Post
    Ahem; How easy was Oman Air to resume CMB service and Qatar Airways request for 3rd frequency...Why some airlines who has requested additional frequency to CMB are forced/coerced to HTT.

    What happened to Qatar's request to operate to Australia via CMB

    If UL cannot make money they should get out of airline business. There is a saying in North America "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

    There are airline which makes profits...wake up and smell the coffee...by the way if price comes down it is good for customers.


    This is EXACTLY the point i was raising.

    Qatar/Oman possibly using SL as a "home base" means, more revenue for SL, more aircraft landing in CMB , more passengers, more tourists, SO MUCH MORE POTENTIAL for the nation on so many levels.

    Same thing happened with Virgin back in the 90s.

    All this rubbish to "protect" the national carrier. Such short sighted stupidity costs SL so much, in so many other fields as well.

  6. #6

    Keep an Open Mind!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
    The problem is like this:

    The Government does not allow other airlines to operate fully in SL.

    This is to "preserve the national carrier", routes done by UL are not allowed by other airlines e.g. Colombo-London direct route is only allowed to be operated by UL.

    This way there is a guaranteed passenger intake/flights for UL.

    It's utterly stupid. Because of this useless decision to "preserve the national carrier", so few airlines fly to SL, they are actively discouraged to use it as a hub/transit centre. As a result less planes, less passengers, less revenue, less potential tourists, and thus less growth overall for the airport and the country.

    It also means UL can "play hell" because they run a monopoloy.

    It also means that when UL is poorly managed, money is wasted due to corruption (courtesy of the Government interference) and UL loses whatever profits it has, the Government honcho's know they can still rake in some money because they have a "cool" monopoly on the routes. There are always people who want to do the e.g. Colombo-London direct and only UL is allowed it, so some how some cash flows in from passengers.

    Its short sighted, its foul and its disgusting.

    Other airlines who have tried to set up shop in Colombo are left with bad tastes in their mouths because Government worthies want bribes or as described above want to keep this monopoly and tell them to buggar off.

    Back in the early 90s then again in the early 2000s Richard Branson wanted to set Colombo up as a hub for Virgin in the region to connect with India, ME and the Far East. But true to form “protecting the national carrier” was more important.

    You guys must seriously be drinking some weird cool-aid with a weird business sense....look at the world at large....protectionism of some degree is probably the only thing that even allow countries to even think of keeping their airlines flying...lets look at some recent examples:

    1) Virgin Atlantic mentioned here was effectively snubbed out of taking over BMI and the all-important Heathrow slots by a combination of BA and some government intervention to keep the British legacy carrier with the majority of slots and only after intervention by the EU commission did they even think about releasing a couple of slots for Virgin to even think of flying too....

    hmm....a British Airline with government backing taking out another British airline.....

    2) Qantas...suffering badly because of the number and frequencies of international carriers into Australia are increasingly looking towards the government to prevent further increases in bilateral ties and also lobbying for a review of middle eastern airlines (aka Etihad) buying into airlines like Virgin Australia....

    Qantas is effectively asking the government to intervene....and if the very influential pilots union has their way....things will certainly spice-up...

    3) Malaysian Airlines....recent share-swap strategies with Air Asia all came to zilch after several government-backed unions threatened and forced Air Asia effectively out....and lets not forget that they effectively blocked Air Asia out of Beijing, Seoul and Sydney (two of the best performing routes and another route with big potential) because they wanted to protect Malaysian Airlines and only allowed Air Asia to operate only when the share-swap was instigated and now the situation might turn again depending on the new government that may be sworn in next year and how much importance they place in MAS....

    4) Singapore....the government although providing avenues for airlines to fly-in-and-out still protect their home turf (Singapore, Tiger, Scoot) very effectively.....although there were repeated events to establish Air Asia Singapore....they've always been denied by the government....the only airline allowed thus far was Jetstar and thats because of mergers, with Singaporean-owned entities....

    5) Thailand....the government effectively votedd out Tiger Airways because Thai Airways have (NOK Air) and are starting a budget airline of their own to compete with Air Asia....this only once they realized the value that Air Asia bought....

    6) Middle Eastern Airlines....if for one minute anyone believe that other than Emirates that all the other airlines are operating without government bailout money....you guys must be kidding....the rate of expansion in states like Qatar and Abu Dhabi is almost unnatural....they are replicating the Emirates business model but with almost no back network like tourism, MICE etc etc....things will start to get interesting when the oil money runs out....


    So, thats a few and I'm sure I can find half-a-dozen more examples as well...

    As for the reasoning that UL are only allowed to operate on the CMB-UK route is flawed as its bilateral rights....but airlines from the UK simply don't because they can't compete on price...thats the same problem with all the other European legacy carriers, they are fundamentally too expensive and only operate to major transit hubs.....it's a given that Sri Lanka is not there yet and it will remain to be seen whether we'll be as big because the creating of a new asian aviation hub is extremely difficult with the current situation in the aviation market as well as the world economy....

    As for UL, at least it is mending its ways.....its not as glamorous as some of its contemporaries and has a fair way to go to get there but during the last couple of years under EK where there was no growth or any change for the better at least currently they are trying to initiate a turnaround....

    a lot may be said by everybody, but if the day ever comes that UL stops operating....alot of people in Sri Lanka will effectively shut itself from the world....so yes my advise is to be a bit more pragmatic and take everything with an open mind and take in a more measured perspective...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
    This is EXACTLY the point i was raising.

    Qatar/Oman possibly using SL as a "home base" means, more revenue for SL, more aircraft landing in CMB , more passengers, more tourists, SO MUCH MORE POTENTIAL for the nation on so many levels.

    Same thing happened with Virgin back in the 90s.

    All this rubbish to "protect" the national carrier. Such short sighted stupidity costs SL so much, in so many other fields as well.
    Virgin would have started an Indian carrier way back then....20million as compared to 1 billion (its not even a comparison - the middle class alone would be a good 5 times bigger than Sri Lanka).....and they already operate their and have been for some time...Virgin coming to Sri Lanka in the 1990s is alot of hogwash if it was that serious it would already have flights coming in and transiting...im sure they'd have already been flying to Maldives by now as well....the Sri Lankan demographic would never fit into the levels that Virgin expects (come see Virgin Australia, which is now competing head-on with Qantas for business class passengers on domestic routes)

    Oman Air/Qatar are based within easy flying distance to India and Sri Lanka and they only want to attract a feeder crowd into their other areas...

    Oman Air doesnt even fall into the picture, its tiny and just a recent fledgling and they wouldnt have any use establishing a base a couple of hours away from their home base....

    Qatar are too close as well and they already fly in around 4 times a day.....if there was so much traffic that they want to establish a home base here...they wouldnt be sending in an A320, believe me....

    the simple matter is that none of these airlines would set up a secondary base so close to their home base...current airline economics dont work that way....the only recent example I can think of is Jet Airways who set up a secondary base in Brussels and thats failing miserably....

    the only avenue of interest could be for a budget carrier like Air Asia to be set up and that can gain some mileage....but other than that it wouldnt really be viable...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbird View Post
    Ahem; How easy was Oman Air to resume CMB service and Qatar Airways request for 3rd frequency...Why some airlines who has requested additional frequency to CMB are forced/coerced to HTT.

    What happened to Qatar's request to operate to Australia via CMB

    If UL cannot make money they should get out of airline business. There is a saying in North America "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

    There are airline which makes profits...wake up and smell the coffee...by the way if price comes down it is good for customers.
    why would Qatar want to even consider operating to Australia via CMB, when they have direct connections to their home base....

    the Australian consumer either heads to South East Asia, Europe, South America or North America.....South Asia is not really a growth market....

    all middle eastern flights, american airlines, qantas, cathay, singapore, malaysian and virgin and the new wave of chinese flights are only concerned about traffic moving through to Europe or the Americas....that's the high revenue drivers...so the less stops and faster connections means more passengers and higher revenue.....

    the budget airlines and ASEAN airlines and qantas (to a certain degree) feed the local Asia-Pacific market...

    agreed UL needs to make profits and hopefully utilize better planes and attract business class, which means investment which until recently has been in short supply...so hopefully they'll pull up their socks...

    as for the American saying well if that was the case...half the American banks and for that matter airlines wouldn't be in business...they've all felt the heat a fair bit and the cooling fan has been stimulus packages from government and other entities
    Last edited by slaviator; 13-07-2012 at 12:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by slaviator View Post
    why would Qatar want to even consider operating to Australia via CMB, when they have direct connections to their home base....

    the Australian consumer either heads to South East Asia, Europe, South America or North America.....South Asia is not really a growth market....

    all middle eastern flights, american airlines, qantas, cathay, singapore, malaysian and virgin and the new wave of chinese flights are only concerned about traffic moving through to Europe or the Americas....that's the high revenue drivers...so the less stops and faster connections means more passengers and higher revenue.....

    the budget airlines and ASEAN airlines and qantas (to a certain degree) feed the local Asia-Pacific market...

    agreed UL needs to make profits and hopefully utilize better planes and attract business class, which means investment which until recently has been in short supply...so hopefully they'll pull up their socks...

    as for the American saying well if that was the case...half the American banks and for that matter airlines wouldn't be in business...they've all felt the heat a fair bit and the cooling fan has been stimulus packages from government and other entities
    I am pretty sure it looks like you been have drinking the coolaid...Qatar's request (to operate between CMB and Australia) for SL government has been long before Qatar got landing rights to Australia. Qatar CEO personally visited Sri Lanka for that request.

    Don't mix up the banking with airline business. here are the defunct airlines in US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States and here is the list of US airlines that has filed for bankruptcies in the United States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline..._United_States

    Since you brought of the banking crises of 2008, none of the TARP (AKA bailout Funds) are utilized in any US airlines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble...Relief_Program. US allowed Lehman Brothers to fail; but could not afford to have a domino effect in the whole banking industry (further run on the banks). TARP fund were never used for any other business except for Banking and Auto industries. This has nothing to do with the airline business.

    Main reason of the 2008 sub prime mortgage crises was giving loans to people who cannot afford. like giving loans to UL and Mihin. When you give loans to sub prime category; interest rate for those loans are Prime++...so you could figure out the rest

    You remark "hopefully they'll pull up their socks " ; what happens when that hope fails; do you hope again and again...It is like guy goes to casino thinking he can win the jackpot spend all of his money and then starts borrowing. A clever guy knows when to exit.
    Last edited by Speedbird; 13-07-2012 at 01:40 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbird View Post
    I am pretty sure it looks like you been have drinking the coolaid...Qatar's request (to operate between CMB and Australia) for SL government has been long before Qatar got landing rights to Australia. Qatar CEO personally visited Sri Lanka for that request.

    Don't mix up the banking with airline business. here are the defunct airlines in US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States and here is the list of US airlines that has filed for bankruptcies in the United States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline..._United_States

    Since you brought of the banking crises of 2008, none of the TARP (AKA bailout Funds) are utilized in any US airlines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble...Relief_Program. US allowed Lehman Brothers to fail; but could not afford to have a domino effect in the whole banking industry (further run on the banks). TARP fund were never used for any other business except for Banking and Auto industries. This has nothing to do with the airline business.

    Main reason of the 2008 sub prime mortgage crises was giving loans to people who cannot afford. like giving loans to UL and Mihin. When you give loans to sub prime category; interest rate for those loans are Prime++...so you could figure out the rest

    You remark "hopefully they'll pull up their socks " ; what happens when that hope fails; do you hope again and again...It is like guy goes to casino thinking he can win the jackpot spend all of his money and then starts borrowing. A clever guy knows when to exit.
    Well clearly you referenced the Long lists when I implied airlines. Did anyone forget the $15 billion pumped in by Congress and what that did. Have a read....and thats for airlines even private ones.... Some failed but some grew stronger

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...549004,00.html


    And for interest sake the full list and amounts that US banks receive....

    http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list


    And if you could please point me in the direction of when the QATAR CEO made this request as the bilateral agreement between Qatar and Australia started in 2003 and is still under wraps

    http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/avi...greements.aspx

    Well currently UL is not failing and neither is Mihin. If you do want recent examples of failures look at American Airlines, Kingfisher. Halfway to that is when one must exit the model. You can't change an airline overnight. There is not a single one that made a profit overnight and witH what the fuel prices were many airlines are struggling.

    At least there is a determined effort, the renewed focus on China by Sri Lankan, the second tier Indian cities, even destinations like Bangladesh are perfect for Mihins model. Those are destinations where Sri Lankan under EK management failed because they were too expensive but Mihin can thrive because they hit the right cost bracket.

    There is a need for newer long range aircraft and that's a negative currently, but that also means capital infusions. Where there is a slow dribble coming through so yes there is a definite attempt to pull up their socks with what they have they results are starting to show.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by slaviator View Post
    Well clearly you referenced the Long lists when I implied airlines. Did anyone forget the $15 billion pumped in by Congress and what that did. Have a read....and thats for airlines even private ones.... Some failed but some grew stronger

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...549004,00.html


    And for interest sake the full list and amounts that US banks receive....

    http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list


    And if you could please point me in the direction of when the QATAR CEO made this request as the bilateral agreement between Qatar and Australia started in 2003 and is still under wraps

    http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/avi...greements.aspx

    Well currently UL is not failing and neither is Mihin. If you do want recent examples of failures look at American Airlines, Kingfisher. Halfway to that is when one must exit the model. You can't change an airline overnight. There is not a single one that made a profit overnight and witH what the fuel prices were many airlines are struggling.

    At least there is a determined effort, the renewed focus on China by Sri Lankan, the second tier Indian cities, even destinations like Bangladesh are perfect for Mihins model. Those are destinations where Sri Lankan under EK management failed because they were too expensive but Mihin can thrive because they hit the right cost bracket.

    There is a need for newer long range aircraft and that's a negative currently, but that also means capital infusions. Where there is a slow dribble coming through so yes there is a definite attempt to pull up their socks with what they have they results are starting to show.
    US airlines did not get bailout money in 2008, but they did after Sep 2001, when people were afraid of flying and to get people flying again. Dont mix up 2008 with 2001

    Qatar started negotiation with Australia in 2003 and still there is no treaty. There are no bilateral agreement (AKA Treaty) between Qatar and Australia. There is an "interim" one.

    "Mar 5, 2003 (Al-Bawaba via COMTEX) -- The Governments of Qatar and the Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) that will allow for more air services between Doha and Colombo.
    After a second round of talks between Qatar's Civil Aviation Authority, Qatar Airways and authorities from Sri Lanka, Qatar and Sri Lanka have agreed to increase weekly frequencies from seven to nine flights with any type of aircraft. The parties have also agreed to allow Qatar Airways to operate sixth freedom rights from Sri Lanka, which will allow Qatar Airways to fly to Colombo and then onto Singapore or Australia.

    The parties agreed that if Qatar Airways opted to fly to Australia via Colombo, then the number of frequencies could be increased to ten per week.

    Qatar Airways is presently integrating an aggressive growth strategy that will see it expand its route network from 38 destinations to 50 destinations by the end of next year. It presently operates 21 aircraft, and will increase this to 28 by the end of 2003. - (menareport.com)


    By Mena Report Reporters"

    you would like to know additional info on the Qatar request to operate Australia contact DGCA Sri Lanka (2003 - 2006) or Sri Lankan Min of Civil Aviation, Senior UL management at that time; or the current HE who was the PM at that time. Private conversation and business communication do not appear in the web. it is privileged few who knows what happened. When agreement or a MoU is signed then news release done by corporate communication or SL media center.

    Sri lankan and qatari limited open sky agreement which was signed on 2003 was later amended to 28 flight per week.

    http://www.dailymirror.lk/business/o...pen-skies.html

    Viability of UL
    Sri Lankan made a loss of $150million+ (for FY 2011) and Mihin is still making losses now go figure...

    To buy long rang aircraft you need money...it is that simple.

    When US government gives loan guarantee or issues bonds they are given interest rate is calculated based on the credit rating which is AAA/AA+ compared to Sri Lankan gov rating which is below the investment grade i.e. you pay premium interest rates.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedbird View Post
    US airlines did not get bailout money in 2008, but they did after Sep 2001, when people were afraid of flying and to get people flying again. Dont mix up 2008 with 2001

    Qatar started negotiation with Australia in 2003 and still there is no treaty. There are no bilateral agreement (AKA Treaty) between Qatar and Australia. There is an "interim" one.

    "Mar 5, 2003 (Al-Bawaba via COMTEX) -- The Governments of Qatar and the Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) that will allow for more air services between Doha and Colombo.
    After a second round of talks between Qatar's Civil Aviation Authority, Qatar Airways and authorities from Sri Lanka, Qatar and Sri Lanka have agreed to increase weekly frequencies from seven to nine flights with any type of aircraft. The parties have also agreed to allow Qatar Airways to operate sixth freedom rights from Sri Lanka, which will allow Qatar Airways to fly to Colombo and then onto Singapore or Australia.

    The parties agreed that if Qatar Airways opted to fly to Australia via Colombo, then the number of frequencies could be increased to ten per week.

    Qatar Airways is presently integrating an aggressive growth strategy that will see it expand its route network from 38 destinations to 50 destinations by the end of next year. It presently operates 21 aircraft, and will increase this to 28 by the end of 2003. - (menareport.com)


    By Mena Report Reporters"

    you would like to know additional info on the Qatar request to operate Australia contact DGCA Sri Lanka (2003 - 2006) or Sri Lankan Min of Civil Aviation, Senior UL management at that time; or the current HE who was the PM at that time. Private conversation and business communication do not appear in the web. it is privileged few who knows what happened. When agreement or a MoU is signed then news release done by corporate communication or SL media center.

    Sri lankan and qatari limited open sky agreement which was signed on 2003 was later amended to 28 flight per week.

    http://www.dailymirror.lk/business/o...pen-skies.html

    Viability of UL
    Sri Lankan made a loss of $150million+ (for FY 2011) and Mihin is still making losses now go figure...

    To buy long rang aircraft you need money...it is that simple.

    When US government gives loan guarantee or issues bonds they are given interest rate is calculated based on the credit rating which is AAA/AA+ compared to Sri Lankan gov rating which is below the investment grade i.e. you pay premium interest rates.
    I didn't mix up either situation thats why I posted the article just to make sure that you understood that some entities are too big or important to fail. And like anywhere else government have bailed out airlines and banks when the need has arisen and not simplyat kicked them out.

    As for the treaty because it's not finalized, Qatar's presence is a shadow of what it can be here with flights into Melbourne and most recently into Perth. Thank you for the article on Qatar.

    But knowing the Aussie market because I live and work here in a role in a team, which advises several airlines on their growth prospects within Australia and elsewhere, it would be like committing suicide, because the expat market won't be able to sustain sufficient demand for Qatar to operate successfully.

    UL did make a loss but so did a lot of other airlines. Airline turnarounds don't happen overnight or even for a few years. After the 2001 bomb attacks on the airport, if you look at the growth pattern of UL it was basically a feeder for Emirates with no real growth in terms of aircraft. And after that stopped we came to a literal standstill till the end of the war. Now there is movement upwards like it or not.

    It's an airline even our team keeps an eye on simply because we like the footprint in India and if it successfully forges ahead in china and eventually grows in Africa. It is at the perfect nexus and location to grow with theses areas, and believe me even if growth has slowed down it was way better than all other areas in the world save for a few like Australia and parts of South America. Sri Lanka is a better hub for an airline to grow because of its size because It doesn't have to concentrate on a significant domestic network. A membership fee has to paid which Cathay is doing for us, but the OneWorld membership is mainly in part to that potential. We would be able to significantly connect to many growth locations within a few hours from Sri Lanka.

    That $150 million is in mostly due to the unsustainable oil prices (the stranglehold over oil should gradually decrease - if shale gas takes over in the US and other parts of the world, it's already having an impact because it's not economically sustainable) over the last year but also due to aircraft upgrades and also more importantly a look at getting the new business class product on board up to a reasonable standard because that's where we'll start to make money on loss making long haul routes. The flight simulator in Colombo for the A320, the possible Lufthansa MRO at HTT are investments that could generate further investments.
    We need to get rid of those A340's as soon as possible because they don't really help the bottom line. For that we need money and since we lease on most occassions and don't buy outright the ratings agency argument doesn't hold place. Well if it did Emirates would never grow I.e because they don't even have a rating in Dubai, because its based on a request and not mandatory.

    In any case I guess I look at with a more long term outlook because that's the only way I personally feel works and it's more the views of the airlines and strategy company I work for.

    There is one thing that I don't agree with and that's the use of Sri Lankan for VIP charters and I feel that that's a deplorable act.
    Last edited by slaviator; 14-07-2012 at 10:45 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by slaviator View Post
    I didn't mix up either situation thats why I posted the article just to make sure that you understood that some entities are too big or important to fail. And like anywhere else government have bailed out airlines and banks when the need has arisen and not simplyat kicked them out.

    As for the treaty because it's not finalized, Qatar's presence is a shadow of what it can be here with flights into Melbourne and most recently into Perth. Thank you for the article on Qatar.

    But knowing the Aussie market because I live and work here in a role in a team, which advises several airlines on their growth prospects within Australia and elsewhere, it would be like committing suicide, because the expat market won't be able to sustain sufficient demand for Qatar to operate successfully.

    UL did make a loss but so did a lot of other airlines. Airline turnarounds don't happen overnight or even for a few years. After the 2001 bomb attacks on the airport, if you look at the growth pattern of UL it was basically a feeder for Emirates with no real growth in terms of aircraft. And after that stopped we came to a literal standstill till the end of the war. Now there is movement upwards like it or not.

    It's an airline even our team keeps an eye on simply because we like the footprint in India and if it successfully forges ahead in china and eventually grows in Africa. It is at the perfect nexus and location to grow with theses areas, and believe me even if growth has slowed down it was way better than all other areas in the world save for a few like Australia and parts of South America. Sri Lanka is a better hub for an airline to grow because of its size because It doesn't have to concentrate on a significant domestic network. A membership fee has to paid which Cathay is doing for us, but the OneWorld membership is mainly in part to that potential. We would be able to significantly connect to many growth locations within a few hours from Sri Lanka.

    That $150 million is in mostly due to the unsustainable oil prices (the stranglehold over oil should gradually decrease - if shale gas takes over in the US and other parts of the world, it's already having an impact because it's not economically sustainable) over the last year but also due to aircraft upgrades and also more importantly a look at getting the new business class product on board up to a reasonable standard because that's where we'll start to make money on loss making long haul routes. The flight simulator in Colombo for the A320, the possible Lufthansa MRO at HTT are investments that could generate further investments.
    We need to get rid of those A340's as soon as possible because they don't really help the bottom line. For that we need money and since we lease on most occassions and don't buy outright the ratings agency argument doesn't hold place. Well if it did Emirates would never grow I.e because they don't even have a rating in Dubai, because its based on a request and not mandatory.

    In any case I guess I look at with a more long term outlook because that's the only way I personally feel works and it's more the views of the airlines and strategy company I work for.

    There is one thing that I don't agree with and that's the use of Sri Lankan for VIP charters and I feel that that's a deplorable act.

    What you say sounds very promising and i really want UL to be the best and highly successful, it's just so disappointing to see it tank. The service was just foul when i flew last month, seats horrible, food equally horrible, uninterested cabin crew and toilets not so great.

    There is one thing that I don't agree with and that's the use of Sri Lankan for VIP charters and I feel that that's a deplorable act.
    This is one of the biggest problems, the grotesque levels of interference in the management, and free flights for so called VIPs and their stooges that eats into the airline.
    Last edited by Praetorian; 15-07-2012 at 12:02 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by slaviator View Post
    4) Singapore....the government although providing avenues for airlines to fly-in-and-out still protect their home turf (Singapore, Tiger, Scoot) very effectively.....although there were repeated events to establish Air Asia Singapore....they've always been denied by the government....the only airline allowed thus far was Jetstar and thats because of mergers, with Singaporean-owned entities....
    That is interesting to know .. while QF is doing all it can, to stop SQ expanding in AU market, and refusing the Kangaroo root, why do I see a dozen plus QF tails in Changi ?? Oh, well, QF holds majority shares in Orange Star -

    Singapore never refused anybody - as long as they got reciprocal - heck, even when Indonesia is playing tough on Singapore, by refusing additional landing rights for 3K/VF, Singapore still allows those crates from Indonesia, with they 'use-by-date' long gone ..

    For AK, AK want to leverage on Existing third freedom rights - and to remove traffic out of Singapore - to just do transit in Singapore - in other words, to not bring in pax to Singapore, but to use Singapore as a spring board to grab business, say, from Middle East to KUL .. for example. See how Air Asia Phi is operating ..

    And any sane person who knows how AK operates will know that any of the AK's ventures, outside Malaysia, are craftily done so that not much profit or anything goes to the country of incorporation - almost all goes back to AK Holdings .. i.e. Tune Group.

    All that Singapore and Changi needs is to be convinced that your airline is not going to remove traffic hitting Singapore .. all else if overlooked ..

    A normal day in Changi will show you B737Advs, Classics, and a lot more types, primarily out of Indonesia ..

  15. #15

    Very interesting discussions

    Thank you to Praetorian , KFlyer , Speedbird , slaviator , & to you Banu for very interesting & stimulating discussion points - very well done & very well researched
    As a legacy carrier UL faces continuing challenges , I am sure our common goal is to see UL succeed ( one day in our dreams)

    Thank you again & keep the robust discussions going , spare a thought for Federica Janz and her ongoing expose !!

    Also a welcome relief from hearing about Madurai - can you move to other discussion board !!!! or I am the only one sick of reading about it , just fly to Tiruchchirapalli ans I will pay for the mini bus to Madurai

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Lanka View Post
    Thank you to Praetorian , KFlyer , Speedbird , slaviator , & to you Banu for very interesting & stimulating discussion points - very well done & very well researched
    As a legacy carrier UL faces continuing challenges , I am sure our common goal is to see UL succeed ( one day in our dreams)

    Thank you again & keep the robust discussions going , spare a thought for Federica Janz and her ongoing expose !!

    Also a welcome relief from hearing about Madurai - can you move to other discussion board !!!! or I am the only one sick of reading about it , just fly to Tiruchchirapalli ans I will pay for the mini bus to Madurai
    I care nothing for that worthless woman when you consider the fact Janz, Lasantha, Lal and that ilk are foul cretins who hate Sri Lanka with passion. Comically without Sri Lanka they are nobodies.

    Their attitude during the war is why i know they care nothing for even the "expose's" they make other than promoting themselves, not out of some love for SL or "clean Governance".

    If the kind of “journalism" practised by SundayLeader, LeN, LNW and Namini Wejidasa happened in the West such media institutions would be shut down, and such “journalists” would be unemployable or in prison for liable. If they dared try an ounce of open support or solicitation with the sworn enemies of the state, they would shot dead for treason without single protest or opposition. They are lucky to be in SL.

    Now don't get me wrong, this does not excuse GR's puppy adventure. I'm disgusted. He was the only R i had a little faith in (he does great work and i appreicate it, and want him to continue) but the puppy adventure has proven that he too has got drunk on power, like the rest.
    Last edited by Praetorian; 16-07-2012 at 03:26 PM.

  17. #17
    All this politically linked rumbling aside (which i have spawned in my rant above), we all want UL to be the best.

    I really do not like slamming UL but it really really is heart breaking when you consider how this airline is being run into the ground, when SO EASILY it can be one of the best in the world, raking in huge profits.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Lanka View Post
    Also a welcome relief from hearing about Madurai - can you move to other discussion board !!!! or I am the only one sick of reading about it , just fly to Tiruchchirapalli ans I will pay for the mini bus to Madurai
    Did anyone ask you to come to Madurai. You better move away if you are not interested instead of behaving like ....

  19. #19
    I read on LBO that many institutions in Sri Lanka do not read or bother with world reviews and ranking systems; most don’t even know these things exist.

    Our airports and airlines bigwigs don’t even care for such rankings, most having not been out of Sri Lanka for long and think the low standards in SL are “the best” (of course with them stealing others peoples money to enjoy extravagant lifestyles globe trotting this may change). Add to this the attitude of the people in SL where they do not want to improve or better things, they’ll just jump abroad and enjoy betterment rather than have a desire to transfer such to SL. Why else are motorways coming up 40 years late.

    What UL and CMB needs is a sense of rivalry. What they need is to set a goal to out beat the likes of Emirates and Dubai. The attitude and thinking should be one of: “they are our competitors, we need to beat them and take the number one spot from them bulldozing them out of the way”.

    At the moment, like all things in SL they just don’t mind “hanging in” while being pushed side to side “hoping” everything will work out. This is like the current Governments aim to make SL a hub for transhipment, aviation and education. These are good ideas. But they are doing nothing to fulfil these aspirations and vision. They make lots of noise regarding these goals then do nothing, expecting it to all fall from the sky or something.

    In fact most Government bigwigs and honcho’s have done everything possible to drive people away and undermine these goals, not to mention their primary interest in pocketing money for themselves which is just UGLY.

    If UL and CMB view Emirates and Dubai as “the enemy” and drill into themselves the goal to be number 1 we can get a world class airlines and airport and achieve hub status.

    A good thing that has been done is focusing on the Far East. This is where the money and profits lie. China and Korea are BURSTING with wealth. We need to capture it. We need to keep increasing our presence and quality of service (the latter most important) to this sector. Lets also not forget Chinese love going to Europe and London in particular. This is a HUGE market area and provides the ability to give CMB true hub status as well.

    There is also passenger traffic flowing in the reverse direction from West to East, especially with business types looking for their fortunes in the East.

    However as CMB stands now as an airport, it’s not that great. They need to build that new terminal soon and make sure it can get IATA’s South Asia hub status conferred to it, before this is given to a South Indian airport.
    Last edited by Praetorian; 31-07-2012 at 03:57 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
    I read on LBO that many institutions in Sri Lanka do not read or bother with world reviews and ranking systems; most don’t even know these things exist.

    Our airports and airlines bigwigs don’t even care for such rankings, most having not been out of Sri Lanka for long and think the low standards in SL are “the best” (of course with them stealing others peoples money to enjoy extravagant lifestyles globe trotting this may change). Add to this the attitude of the people in SL where they do not want to improve or better things, they’ll just jump abroad and enjoy betterment rather than have a desire to transfer such to SL. Why else are motorways coming up 40 years late.

    What UL and CMB needs is a sense of rivalry. What they need is to set a goal to out beat the likes of Emirates and Dubai. The attitude and thinking should be one of: “they are our competitors, we need to beat them and take the number one spot from them bulldozing them out of the way”.

    At the moment, like all things in SL they just don’t mind “hanging in” while being pushed side to side “hoping” everything will work out. This is like the current Governments aim to make SL a hub for transhipment, aviation and education. These are good ideas. But they are doing nothing to fulfil these aspirations and vision. They make lots of noise regarding these goals then do nothing, expecting it to all fall from the sky or something.

    In fact most Government bigwigs and honcho’s have done everything possible to drive people away and undermine these goals, not to mention their primary interest in pocketing money for themselves which is just UGLY.

    If UL and CMB view Emirates and Dubai as “the enemy” and drill into themselves the goal to be number 1 we can get a world class airlines and airport and achieve hub status.

    A good thing that has been done is focusing on the Far East. This is where the money and profits lie. China and Korea are BURSTING with wealth. We need to capture it. We need to keep increasing our presence and quality of service (the latter most important) to this sector. Lets also not forget Chinese love going to Europe and London in particular. This is a HUGE market area and provides the ability to give CMB true hub status as well.

    There is also passenger traffic flowing in the reverse direction from West to East, especially with business types looking for their fortunes in the East.

    However as CMB stands now as an airport, it’s not that great. They need to build that new terminal soon and make sure it can get IATA’s South Asia hub status conferred to it, before this is given to a South Indian airport.

    UL and CMB considered EK and DXB their enemy, but for the wrong reasons.

    EK transformed UL, what then amounted to a Nigerian tuk-tuk service to something that people can actually fly.

    But then they declared war on EK and chased them away, at a time when EK’s might was absolutely crucial for the survival of UL. Rest, as they call is history!

    UL today is surviving on handouts (tax payer money) with a begging bowl in its hands.

    Don't get me wrong, I want UL to succeed and I am happy to see them taking a few good measures recently such as cutting down on 'pride routes' and increasing the frequency to profitable destinations. But they need to do more if they ever want to be in the black.

    The real question is "do they want to"?

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